Episode 5: The Sacred Pause: When Rest Becomes A Portal into new possibilities

For those of us raised on the unspoken rule that rest must be earned, this episode is for you.

Suks sits down with Zahra Mahomoud, her learning partner and fellow Year 1 student at Inspire Breathwork, for a conversation that is equal parts personal, political, and deeply human. They explore what it means to carry the weight of a first-generation immigrant story in your body, why burnout runs so much deeper than tiredness, and how breathwork began to offer something neither of them had been given before - genuine permission to stop.

Warm, honest, and full of the kind of intimacy that only comes from two people who actually know each other. Episode 5 of The Inspire Breathwork Podcast.

Whether you are here as a student of breathwork or a professional drawn to the Decolonizing Breathwork Facilitator Training by Inspire Breathwork, you are welcome in this space. Come remember that rest is not the opposite of resistance. In the right body, in the right context, it is the most radical act there is. And it starts with one breath.

Zahra Mahomoud is a breathwork facilitator, whirling practitioner and community builder passionate about creating spaces for connection, healing and belonging for those between worlds. She is committed to decolonial practices rooted in the wisdom of the breath, body, and communal ritual, beyond the scope of Western therapy and self-care. Informed by pan-African ancestral traditions of gathering and Sufi traditions of remembrance, she is interested in how we can move beyond living in survival and return to presence, rest, and connection with ourselves, community and Source.

Zahra cultivates spaces for women who navigate multiple worlds and identities. Through shared meals, embodied practices, and meaningful conversation, her work explores what becomes possible when we slow down, listen deeply, and reconnect with the wisdom already held within the body.

Connect with Zahra on Instagram: @theunknowingtable

Transcript:

00:00:01

I want to open today by asking you something. Yes, you listening in. When did you last rest? Truly rest without feeling like you should be doing something else without the low hum of guilt underneath it without earning it first. I ask because for so many of us that kind of rest the full guiltless unhurried kind feels almost out of reach. And I've been wondering why that is, where that came from, whose voice that actually is. It's quite evident we live in a world that rewards exhaustion,

00:00:40

that hands out gold stars for pushing through, for being the first one up and the last one out. And for some of us, those of us carrying the weight of our parents' sacrifices, our community's hopes, stopping feels almost like betrayal. We come from lineages of people, mothers, fathers, uncles, aunts who wore their busyiness like armor still do because in the worlds they navigated stillness was a luxury they couldn't afford and because I grew up watching that without anyone telling me

00:01:15

to on many occasions I became it. rest in my family, in my culture, in the body I have inherited was not something you did. It was something you earned and even then you felt guilty for it. Hello and welcome to episode 5 of the Inspire Breath work podcast. I'm Suks, your host and resident guilty rest. A woman who will fight for your right to do nothing and then silently judge herself for it. make it make sense. Well, today I'm sitting with someone who knows exactly what I mean. Someone who

00:01:55

has been on this journey with me, not just in the same cohort, but as my learning partner for the last 6 months. Someone I have sat with, spoken with, breathed with for the last 6 months and been genuinely moved by over these past months. Her name is Zaram Mahmud. And what she has to say about rest, about what it costs, what it means, and what it can become, I think might change something in you. It sure changed something in me. Zara, welcome in. Thank you, Suks. It's so lovely to be here with you,

00:02:36

Zara. Before anything, I just want to say that having you here feels really special to me. You and I have spent a lot of time together these past few months. We've talked about the course, about life, about all the things that are shifting, and all the things that are hard. And we've breed together so many times. I feel like I know you in a way that doesn't always happen so quickly. Uh, but fortunately, it has happened with us. So before we do anything else, how are you? Not the version you would give a stranger, the

00:03:11

real one. Yeah, I'm good. I'm a bit nervous. Uh I had a really slow start to my day today, though, which I think has put me in a more of a settled mood today. Um, and yeah, I'm also really excited to have this conversation with you and to discover things with you through this conversation. How are you? >> I am mostly excited, a little hot. Um, yeah. And I think uh just interested in knowing you in new ways that I haven't before. And there are I can't believe there are so many multitudes of ways we

00:04:01

can get to know each other. >> Yeah. Yeah. I Yeah. >> Thanks so much for bringing me where you are and it's so you uh to you know go straight to the honest place. Um, so I want to ask you one more thing before we properly begin and we were just you were just talking to me about it before we got into it. Um, what did it take for you to get here today practically, physically? What did your morning look like? >> Yeah, so I it's Friday today and I I at the moment I don't work on Fridays. So,

00:04:42

um, I woke up and was actually feeling really tired this morning. Um, I had a bit of a late night last night. Um, and luckily I had the luxury to stay in bed a little bit longer, so I I took that and um, treated myself to a a slightly longer shower this morning than usual. Um, as I said, it's been a really slow morning. Um, I treated myself to a lovely lunch as well that I was part of why I slept late last night cuz I I was cooking till kind of late. Um, and yeah, that's kind of what brought me

00:05:22

here. I did some prayers as well today. Um, which is is a practice that I guess is deepening with time and that is so nourishing and gives me so much. That's so beautiful. I am so happy to hear that you um you know managed so much rest for yourself in the ways that you feel rested because rest can look so different for everyone. And I think why I wanted to even begin with this was because um I think these are things we rarely name the invisible labor of just simply showing up into a space. Um and

00:06:00

sometimes our mornings look different. They are derailed. There are three things we have to sort out before we even start. And uh I love that that's what today's episode is about the rest. And that you have come into this space with that rest. So shall we take a breath together before we start just like we have before? Nothing formal just arriving. Yes, that that would be lovely. Let's do that. shaking parts of us that we feel need shaking. >> Looking around um the space we're in

00:06:41

the balls, the edges, twisting all the way back to notice something we perhaps haven't in a while. Noticing the textures that surround us, the light around us. And as we breathe in this next breath, softening our gaze or closing our eyes, whatever feels most natural. As we breathe in, letting the breath land wherever it may, whether it's soft or hurried, sharp, or smooth. letting it be how it is noticing where the breath is traveling. Can you feel it somewhere specific in your body, in the soles of your feet,

00:08:26

in the back of your thighs, your hands, on your neck or forehead perhaps. Noticing the temperature of your body as you breathe. And as we let the breath set in, taking the last three crowning breaths before we let our senses and our physical body. Settle back into this space. Gently letting light back into your eyes if they were closed. Noticing again your walls, your relationship to your windows and your door. Discerning for yourself how safe and supported you feel as you move into this conversation.

00:10:47

How are you feeling now? Ah, I feel like I sunk deeper into myself is the only way I can describe it. And I feel more settled into my space as well. Um, I especially liked looking at where I am in relation to my door and my windows because looking outside of my window, there's a big tree that is there, of course, all year round. And right now, the leaves are really, you know, so thick and so green. And um I feel like each time I look out the window and look at that tree, there's something it looks

00:11:28

different somehow, you know, if the if it's cloudy or if it's sunny. And today it's very still. And I feel like that kind of was imparted on me in some way. That's amazing. I'm really glad. That's good. I am here too and I'm so glad we get to do this. Let's begin. Zara, for the people who don't know you yet, just tell us who you are. not your healing journey maybe not even where you're headed just what does your life look like right now what fills your days

00:12:12

your evenings yeah so I'm right now I'm a student of my breath and I'm a student of my body um and I feel that's actually put me in a mode of discovery so I I spend a lot of my days I start a lot of my days um not knowing exactly how I'll feel it Um, and I kind of approach my days with that sense of curiosity. Um, I do also have a day job. Um, I work as a as a software engineer. Um, and outside of that, I I love to learn. So, I'm uh I'm learning to play the oud at the moment. That's a

00:12:52

weekly session that I do. I try and get daily practice, but not always super consistent with it. Um, I'm a dancer. um both a student and a practitioner of dance. Um so whirling is the primary mode of dance that I feel super connected to right now. Um and I practice the most I would say. Um I love to cook and sometimes I share that cooking with others in and kind of gatherings that um I feel give me a lot of nourishment and hopefully also give the people who are there a lot of nourishment just you

00:13:30

know eating together. Um I also just spend a lot some of my day doing nothing a lot of the time and just resting or taking a long bath. Um, and the more I do that, the more I guess my ideas around rest and my understanding of what rest is kind of shifts and changes. Wow. I just discovered there are things in there even I didn't know, which is so interesting. Like I did know a bunch of them. Um, and so I was excited for people to know that. But then there was so much I also just found out like the

00:14:09

fact that you're a dancer was not something I knew. I knew about the whirling not about that you are a trained dancer. That's amazing. Yeah, there's so much there and it's actually so beautiful that it's a full life with so many things. I I've met so many people who are asked this question and there's barely three words that get out of their mouth. Not to no no shade to anyone where there are only three words. We're all on our own journeys. Um but the fact that you did identify that

00:14:46

you needed multiple things to nourish you and you found them and you found the time to find them because I imagine none of these things came overnight. They were processes and practices that you tried out first just to feel them out. I know that's how I go about a lot of the things I do today. Feel them out and then you invest time and energy into them and then they grow into these beautiful things. Yeah, that's so exciting to uh start with one of them um because I do want to get into all of it honestly

00:15:21

and I feel like I will through the next two hours. Um but just to set the theme for the reason we're having this conversation and to start with one of those things um I would love to request you to take me back to how breath work came into your life. What was that first encounter like? What did you make of it? >> Yeah. So my my first encounter with I guess conscious connected breathing would have been during lockdown which I think is the case for many people. Um I was actually really unhappy at the time

00:16:01

when I discovered breath work. I was in a quite a difficult relationship and felt quite lonely and isolated at the time and I was kind of looking for different things to to kind of help give me some form of relief. Um, but I actually didn't really know what breath work was when I was going into it. Um, I thought it would be more of a kind of mindfulness type of breathing session. And then when I joined, the facilitator started playing this incredible music and was like counting my breath and or

00:16:36

counting um people's breath. And um it just wasn't something I'd experienced before. And it wasn't long before I started to feel these sensations in my body that I've just never felt before. Um, and like tingling and things like that all over my body. Um and my first session was actually so such medicine like which I feel really fortunate for because I I think it can take a long time for people to kind of receive the fruits of of breath work. Um and I remember when I was coming out of

00:17:17

that session um just as it was ending sometimes you get a big rush after you kind of stop um doing the conscious connected breath. And in this case, the rush that I had was like a big rush of insight or like a download almost um with cuz I'd kind of go gone in thinking about my relationship and what I should do and and that sort of thing. And it was a very kind of zen insight of like there is no right or wrong path. Um some are just more painful than others and it's just a case of being discerning but

00:17:50

also trusting. Um and I haven't actually haven't stopped doing breath work since then. Um and my of course there are times where I do it um daily um or twice a day and then there are times where I go for long stretches of time without doing it. Um but yeah, it's kind of as you were saying before um you kind of try out new things and things just stick through that process of discovery and I feel like breath work was definitely um one of them. I also think there was a lot of grace in the fact that it was online during

00:18:24

lockdown because I I had my camera off. Um my microphone was off. I was in a place that I found comfortable and safe. Um I didn't have to worry about like being seen in a vulnerable state or anything like that. Um and it really worked for me at the time. Yeah. Thanks for taking me down that really sweet memory. Um, I know you and I have talked about this before and we had a very similarish start to how it came to us and the beginnings of the experiences we had. Um, it's been interesting to me

00:19:05

actually this um, how digitalization has definitely its cons that we talk about every day. Um yet there there are all these beautiful things that it has allowed us to do and it's allowed us to do them without having exposed our most vulnerable selves right from the get- go. Um which is something we are kind of moving through with this course as well, right? The discernment of what feels safe at what time. And so often during our classes as well, I know so many of us have our faces on, sometimes we don't. And

00:19:49

it is what allows us to have attention and participation in that day. And that's been beautiful for me through the course. I I really love so many parts of that journey. to go deeper with that a little bit. What point was it for you where this practice which now you said you have been doing for six years on and off wherever at stretches for longer periods of time at stretches with breaks. What point was it where this shifted from something you were doing for yourself to something you wanted to bring to others? What made you

00:20:30

train? And then also why inspire breath work specifically? Yeah. So this was actually I feel like it was a question that crept up on me and kind of grew louder and louder the more I ignored it. Um and it was definitely something that I resisted for a really long time. Um because despite like feeling the personal benefits of breath work, I always felt that in order to enter the healing world cuz I I have no like formal background in in healing or anything like that. Um and have generally felt kind of besides breath

00:21:14

work have generally felt kind of far removed from wellness spaces. Um, and in my mind I thought in order to be a healer or a facilitator, you've kind of really got to have your like stuff together basically. Um, and but with time I realized that actually it's it's about the level of presence that you're able to bring and the sincerity and how much attention and care um you can bring to a space. And there was actually a one particular moment that kind of gave me the reassurance that I

00:21:53

needed that this was something that I could do um and that I didn't have to resist um stepping into. And it was a moment with my nephew uh he was just a couple of months old at the time. Still couldn't speak, couldn't like express with language um in a way that we understand it at least. and he at the time was a bit of a Velcro baby. So anytime someone so much as came into the room um he would cry if it wasn't his mom, my sister. So uh there was one particular moment where I went into the

00:22:28

room, I sat next to him and he started crying and I was kind of remembered. It's that thing of returning, isn't it? kind of returned to this idea of like, okay, he's crying and that's totally fine. Let's make space for that and hold space for that. And within 10 seconds, he stopped crying and he planted his face into mine, which is something I that just had never happened before. um and and being able to have that experience with, you know, this baby. Um kind of something just clicked and I was

00:23:06

like, you know, maybe maybe I can step into the world of healing. Um and maybe you don't actually have to have everything together. And and so I looked into various courses and I um came across inspire breath work. Probably it was probably the second or third course that I came across. Um and I just remember reading the copy and just feeling this huge sense of relief to the point of tears where I was like this is incredible. like here is a course that acknowledges the that wellness isn't an individual

00:23:52

problem. It's a systemic one. And that also honors and acknowledges the ancient roots of breath work. That it's not a a production of of the West. That it's something that's been imported um and is rooted in a really rich um culture and tradition. Um and also yeah taking wellness away from from this idea of the self and um us being purely responsible for our well-being and understanding like delving into this kind of more de decolonized practice. And I just I was so excited. I I came

00:24:32

home and I I told my sister about it and told her, "Look, I found a course that I I want to do." And um yeah, I remember that conversation cuz of the my sister was like, "Gosh, I've never seen you this excited. I haven't seen you this excited in a long time." >> That is so wonderful. And I really felt so deeply when you were sharing some of that. Uh the moment when babies respond to you is definitely one of those profound seconds where you're just like, "Wow, if I can connect here, what more

00:25:07

am I capable of?" And I also resonated very deeply with the bit where you said um you didn't feel like you could enter the wellness space because you didn't have any sort of background in it. And I think I had a very similar moment where I was like, "Oh, but I don't have any certifications and I don't have any degrees to say I can do this work." And then slowly uh for me I think I moved to this place where I am Oruroville. And anytime I spoke to somebody about maybe

00:25:50

volunteering with them or um you know trying to get involved with something they were doing, they would reach back out to me asking me okay what what do you do with your time? What are your gifts? What are your talents? instead of asking me anything else. And that kind of slowly started allowing me to believe that it matters more what my gifts are than what a piece of paper says my certification is. And then slowly that unlearning started around um the systemic structures that brought me to a point of

00:26:29

thinking without a degree I'm not worth much. >> Yeah. I resonated with a lot of that. That was so sweet. Um, for anyone listening who might not know, um, Zara and I both are in year one of the Inspire Breath work facilitator training. We're in class together. We're learning partners. Uh, which means we've been regularly meeting outside of class 2, checking in on each other, processing what's coming up. many times we've actually just turned up to the session and talked about our um

00:27:03

friendships and our love lives and nothing else at all. Uh so some of what we're also going to talk about is material we've literally been sitting with together sometimes just days ago sometimes hours ago even. Um and so to bring back into perspective, I am curious which unit or class of this year has genuinely stayed with you? Which one do you find yourself still thinking about? >> It has to be the class where Hannah introduced the fire framework. um which just for background um it's a framework

00:27:43

that helps expand um our understanding of ancestry beyond just familial ancestry and to think about the ancestry that we connect with in terms of our ideology uh our relationships uh with animals with plants with certain areas um in the world or and beyond um and with the elements Um, and for me that's something that I just haven't stopped thinking about since I heard it. And it's completely shifted how I it's really expanded my um ancestors basically and the ancestors that I feel are available to me and that

00:28:31

I can connect to. And it's also made me more intentional about that as well. So I like before that I'd never even considered that um the ideological part for example um and you know as a as a Muslim as a practicing Muslim um it completely shifted how I engaged with with with that um and how I saw you know the figures the the prophets and the um companions that are spoken about um in religious texts and instead of seeing them as these kind of um I mean I think that the journey kind of started before

00:29:09

as well but this really cemented it and accelerated it. Um, so yeah, instead of seeing them as these kind of distant role models, um, I felt that a much kind of deeper connection there and and almost kind of sense them as these kind of archetypal archetypes that I can if I align myself or or enter a certain state, I can kind of um embody what they embodied, right? and repeating the words that they once said is is as is a way of being connected to them as well. And it so I guess in that way also expanded my sense of community

00:29:49

as well. Um and with the elemental um ancestry part as well. Um I think a lot of I think most people love being by the sea and love water. Um uh and that was some that's something that I've always loved as well. But um this discussion and that lesson really and there have been other lessons as well that have deepened my and kind of made my understanding of um what water does for me like more specific. And um so for instance like there was one particular lesson where we were able to to link water as being a really

00:30:29

important element for me to kind of meet my anger, you know. Um, so yeah, and it's also the lesson that I that comes up a lot the most in in my conversations with friends and with family as well. And it's really fun just seeing their eyes light up and have them kind of rattle off like their list of um relational ancestors or um elemental ancestors. Yeah. Yeah, I do remember that class being very emotional, but also just as whimsical and sweet. Like whoever was in whichever state of mind brought that

00:31:07

forward and to suddenly find ourselves like connected with our favorite, not favorite, but like our the animals we feel most connected to and like you said, water. And I was just we were just talking about how I'm how it's hot where I am and you asked me uh if it's going to pass. And then the just the reality of my existence with water is the same. Like I know how much I love the sea and I had no access to it till I was about 20 years old and I for the first time went to the coast of my country and

00:31:43

witnessed the sea and experienced it and then just couldn't leave it. And so now forever I know I'm going to live by the sea and it doesn't matter how hot it is. It's just things you can't let go of because they they are a part of you. And you're right, I think that framework really helped identify so much of that for ourselves. I also wanted to uh talk about how for me uh not I wouldn't say that I'm referring to the most impactful class that stayed with me but just uh

00:32:20

just on Tuesday the class we were a part of and there was something that came up. Hannah had given us some time to go into our breakout rooms and talk about um what it is that we loved the most about the things we had just discussed. Um and there was something that you had actually reached out to me afterwards to ask because we weren't in the same breakout room but um Rammon who was in the breakout room with me told you later that uh something I had said had really like he'd really appreciated it and you

00:32:51

wanted to know it. Um would you remind me a little bit of the context of what I mean I remember what I said but I'm a little lost on um which bits we were reflecting on specifically. Do you recollect it? Yeah, if I remember correct, I think it was um so Hannah had covered kind of the kind of scientific underpinnings of breath work um and different I guess ways of understanding that as well. So she brought in like the psychedelics and the the rebub. I remember that because of the frog that Natalie

00:33:34

>> Oh yes. Um and and then the breakout room was for talking about which part of what was covered we're most excited about. >> Right. >> Right. Is that >> I do I do recollect now. I feel like it was that part where we had started talking about um how relevant carbon dioxide is to our breathing process. And I had read a lot about it um in that book by James Netor called breath which is also part of our reading list. Um and at that time also I had felt this and then when we went over the specifics the

00:34:13

science behind why exactly carbon dioxide is just as important in our breathing process as oxygen is. And then we went into our breakout rooms to discuss this was one of the things we had talked about in all the science. And what I said was what I loved the most was that we're kind of sitting down and redefining uh what we were taught as children because I don't know a single education system that has not gone into class and said okay oxygen is good carbon dioxide is bad carbon dioxide is

00:34:49

something that uh plants need but humans don't and the same way with everything right like um poop is bad, carbon dioxide is bad, and there are all these labels that we put to things, the good and the bad. And I love that we redefined all of that with actual evidence. And we were able to see all of this as just as relevant to our experience, which one gives us more context on how our body is functioning. And two, it again unlearns and breaks down the I guess the binary concepts of good and bad. And that is all that we're talking

00:35:36

about with decolonization, right? To remove that binary to also um value the things that have just been labeled as one or the other just to make education simpler. And then I also feel like to just to expand on that, this is not something I said in class but right now is coming up for me. I feel like for us to assume that a child's mind the age at whatever age this is being taught in school for us to assume that a child's mind can only take black and white and does not have space for understanding that this thing is also

00:36:15

important but in its own way is kind of reductive of us as adults setting up that education system because I truly believe like a child's mind takes in a lot more with a lot less like a lot more contradiction with a lot less friction than we do as adults. In fact, as adults, there's so much conditioning by that point. You are struggling with taking in the gray and you do actually keep trying to make it black and white so that it's not as overwhelming to handle. But a child actually is very comfortable with just

00:36:49

taking in whatever's being thrown at them. Um yeah, so I was really happy that that tiny version of me now had all these other answers. And some of this I had studied about during my free diving days because so much of that had to do with managing uh the increased capacity of CO2 in our body while it's changing with pressure as you go under and stuff. But it was really nice to do it in this um you know format with new language. Yeah, thank you for for sharing that. That's awesome. And it's so true as well. I

00:37:31

feel like this course has reframed so much and allowed me to revisit so much and think about things in a almost inverse way to the way that I usually would. Um, and I loved what you said about children as well. I find like that children I've probably met more wise children than I've met like wise adults. Sometimes they they just have a way of like cutting through the the BS and like getting straight to the point. And I feel like yeah, we do well as a culture to kind of place more trust in in the

00:38:03

wisdom that children carry and the truthtelling as well, you know. Yeah. But yeah, thank you. That was Yeah. Really cool. >> Yeah. Amazing. Yeah. I'm so glad you agree with that. The kids bit especially >> because I keep trying to like, you know, like if I'm walking around in my street and there are parents like telling kids how to do things certain way, I just want to like there's this deep urge to intervene and say things, but I have to keep it to myself so many times. Yeah.

00:38:38

So, it's nice to have someone on the same team. >> Definitely. So going yeah going a little further in into the course I for something that's very very uh alive in me and in all of us these days because we've been in it. I want to talk about the fishbowl as well. Um because for people inside the course this will be very familiar and for people outside it I think it's very worth explaining. Um, so for anyone listening, a fishbowl is a supervised one-on-one breath work session between two students, one

00:39:20

facilitating, one breathing. It's one of the first times we're actually in the facilitator role with another real person in front of us. Uh, not theory, not practice that's running in our heads. It's a real person uh trusting you with their breath. Uh, and we did have these sessions in unit three with Hannah posting the fishbowls as um as an as a template of how they would look where she was the facilitator for each one of us in every week. And then we moved into unit 4 a couple of weeks ago

00:39:57

where we've started practicing with each other while the rest of the cohort has been observing and um have been doing feedback sessions with us later on. And I feel like they've been some of the most um yeah, I don't even think I have words for it yet. Um but yeah, I I'm curious how it's been for you, Zara. >> Yeah, I agree with you completely. I it's been such an incredible experience and I probably will also struggle to find the words for it. Um, so like from the perspective of like

00:40:43

being an observer within the fishbowl, it's like the first thing is that it's actually felt like such a privilege to be able to witness like our group learning and growing and practicing for the first time. Um, and the learning that comes from that has been incredible. like it's it's to to reflect on their experience and it just leads to so much to such like a rich discussion of and I really love the format that we've been using particularly in this um unit where we are giving feedback to um each other on

00:41:27

our breath work sessions of using the rose um form of the format for feedback and I feel like it's just been really like it's basically it's changed the ways that I listen and observe and it's also changed the ways that I give feedback and it's also changed the ways that I participate in the breath work sessions. Um, and it's also really expanded my idea of what a breath work session looks like because each one has been so different. Um, and it's just reaffirmed that the

00:42:06

breath really is just about creating space and presence to explore what's moving through someone in any given moment. And once you create that space, you there's no way of kind of predicting what will come through. Um, and yeah, it just feels like a process of discovery. Um and from a participant lens like in the times where I've either well I actually haven't given a breath work session yet but um when I've been on the receiving end of um uh facilitation by Hannah and also um Natalie

00:42:45

uh I I remember kind of in the buildup to it feeling a bit nervous about being seen by the group but as soon as the kind of the the session started, I felt this incredible connection to the group and um I could feel just the the presence of everybody hold almost like making a bigger container for what was coming up for me. And yeah, it's just been a really it's been a great experience. Yeah, even even with the nerves. Um, so you said that you've not really you've not been in the facilitator position

00:43:37

yet. Um, just a little question on that. What is the thing uh you're most afraid of as you step into holding space for others? Is there a version of yourself you're worried might show up in the facilitator seat? Yeah, I think I think there is a very specific fear of like dissociate like the dissociation that happens and this is just based on the patterns that I've noticed in myself um and then through that dissociation kind of not being able to offer the presence that I would like to offer

00:44:22

um to the person who's choosing to breathe. breathe with me. Um, but I've also kind of been exploring the dissociation a bit more in my more recent breath work sessions. And you know, I'm I'm learning to kind of stay with it. And even though it is a very elusive sensation to pin down just because of the nature of dissociation, it's like it's the the whole thing is like a lack of connection, right? So, it's hard to connect to it. Um, it's been there are actually sensations that

00:44:57

underpin it. There's a kind of there's a movement to it, I think. And I think being aware of that will help me maybe ground in those sessions. Um, and yeah, be present with my breather hopefully. Um I would love to hear about your experience facilitating actually and what kind of things came up for you and yeah how you've been experiencing these kind of fishbowl sessions as somebody who who has actually participated as a facilitator. >> Yeah, for sure. Um, so I feel like for me,

00:45:42

um, there were parts that I did enjoy and then there were parts that mostly just pushed me um to the point of nervousness that I couldn't perform as well. Um, I think I came in with this sort of script in my mind and on my paper. Um, and that's like that's what's helped me all my life. I've been a writer, a speaker, and so scripting has been like second nature to me, almost first nature to me to be honest, because I don't think there's been any conversation, any any emotional conversation I've had

00:46:27

without having it down in my notes first, like seven versions of it in my notes actually before I've gone and spoken to the person uh it's about or it's with. So, it was only natural for me to do that. But when I did show up in that space, I think um there were parts that I felt satisfied with at the end and then there were parts which led me to uh some of my most breakthrough realizations about what's happening inside my body. So at the end it's actually beautiful that it happened. Um but what it brought

00:47:11

me to was realizing how much performance there is in my body in the in my experience of life at large. Um so I've been sitting with that thought since a while now since the last 3 weeks cuz 3 weeks ago is when I had done I had been the facilitator for the first time. Um, and it's it's funny because when you are the breather, like I was the breather first. So when I was the breather, I knew exactly what was working for me. And I was like, okay, great. Now I have like almost a blueprint of what this

00:47:48

feels like and what it is. And then you think, of course, replicating this shouldn't be tough. And then you get to it and then suddenly everything feels like, oh, but this person is not responding the same way I thought they would respond. But that's the thing like the idea of something being breatherled which is something that Hana has been inculcating and trying to help us embody more and more. Um we are not used to those things. So I think that showed up very hugely for me especially from the

00:48:18

culture I come from. um not just not just my larger culture as an Indian also my immediate familiar culture. Um there is this idea that you go out into the world as a polished version of yourself not as someone who is still trying and failing. And so I feel like it got me to realizations that I have quite often in life not tried enough things because I was not comfortable trying them in front of people. And um yeah, I've been working on that. I've been doing some um like I've been doing breath work sessions with someone

00:49:06

called Pip. Uh Piparin actually is her name. She is one of Hannah's students who has already completed her course and has been taking on clients and is in the middle of her research thesis for the course and it's been really wonderful. Um I've done 3 weeks of sessions with her so far and a lot of this has come up but it's I've also found myself um I suppose taking on that journey with a lot of stride and excitement and I don't think there's been a moment before in my life where I have felt excited to

00:49:44

continue trying at something that I personally felt I didn't do well at or failed at. even if I don't use the words fail didn't do so well and didn't do the way I would have wanted to and um yeah this is something Katie and I Katie is another person in our cohort and her and I also spoke about this that we've never had a moment before where we were excited about trying something and getting better at it and failing and I think that says a lot about the group we're in about the space we have

00:50:17

inculcated as a cohort uh because I couldn't seen myself feel that way um after how harsh it also felt to receive that feedback because it was harsh. I did feel like it stayed with me for a couple of weeks. That feeling of wow, there were a lot of thorns and very little roses and I need I I obviously didn't do well. Um and so many of the people did do beautifully. Like I know that Shikica was just one of the most beautiful sessions I've witnessed ever. Uh Nat with you was fabulous. So I know that

00:50:56

I didn't shine as bright but to accept that and to keep moving with it has been a revelation for me and I'm enjoying it. I'm enjoying not preparing for things and doing my worst at things. Yeah. That's really awesome. It's It sounds like you're going through such a powerful and like liberating realization and uncovering so many um deep insights into yourself and yeah, just want to recognize the courage it takes to stay with that and the fact that you're feeling excitement, Katie's

00:51:33

feeling excitement. Um I think I've felt that excitement too at times. Uh and yeah, I think it definitely does speak to our group and to the ways that these sessions are held as well and also I you know your session was really beautiful um and I know it's there were of course there were learnings from it and there were thorns um and but I just remember being struck by how poetic it was and how the connectedness that you brought into it. Like there are some things that you there's a there are feelings that I kind

00:52:13

of felt as you were speaking that have kind of stayed with me and and you know the things you said around like the walls are here for you and your environment is a living breathing um part of of your life that is is there for you and it's yeah like there there have definitely been things that have stayed with me from from your session And so just wanted to say that out loud. >> Thank you so much. That does really help honestly like yeah I've been a big big u propagator of the idea of you know if you if you are

00:52:56

getting support and help and encouragement take it because honestly it's a privilege. Um, yeah. So, anytime that happens for me, instead of going like, "Oh, yeah, that's okay. I don't really need to hear that." I'm just like, "Yeah, thanks for like taking the time to encourage me to do something and try it again." Yeah. It means a lot. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's something I've been getting better at, too, actually. And I realized as well that when I when I um

00:53:30

reflect something back to someone that I is coming from a genuine place and the response is like oh like they kind of downplay it. I feel like how dare you like that was a sincere thing like I feel I feel kind of unappreciated. So it kind of feels like a gift as well to be able to receive it well when other people kind of are able to when people reflect back the parts of us that you know they see shining. Um yeah, >> I'm I find this really interesting about you. Uh it's the way that you've been

00:54:06

weaving healing into the spaces that you already inhabit. not creating a separate wellness corner of your life, but actually bringing it into things you love already, things you are already doing. Um, and I'm curious if you would talk to me more about that. What does that look like for you? I love this question. Um, I think honestly it starts with acknowledging all the ways that spaces that aren't branded or practices that haven't been branded or categorized as wellness or healing actually are wellness and

00:54:45

healing um or do promote wellness and healing. Um and a lot of that is kind of you know traditions that um I that my mom has passed down to me or um routines and and rituals that around my faith and things like that where um you know people I've been engaging with um since I was little and my family have been you know there's a long line of people who've been engaging with these practices and passing it down and um and The way I see it is so bringing integrating what I'm learning here. It

00:55:25

is really complimentary in in two ways. I think the first way is actually that it's giving me a language to be able to speak about healing in ways that feel resonant to me and to my community. Um and the second is around the kind of the breath work um practices and the ability to hold space and um even just like how to word specific parts of you know the framing of your breath work session and things like that. Um and it's been really fun to look at the different ways I can bring breath work into

00:56:07

um what I'm already doing. So, for instance, with the supper club, um the dinners that I've been hosting, um it that was originally to I I feel like the the reason I I kind of created that space align so beautifully with everything that we've been learning on the course. Um, it really was about bringing people together to remember that we are held in a community and that and to connect with each other, to connect with um food um and to also connect with um my ancestry as well through cooking um that food. So I cook

00:56:49

Somali food and and so um I the last session I did um for the first time I included a little bit of grounding at the beginning um which I it was it was actually not very long. It was maybe 5 minutes and I thought it would be a really good way to start by because it would kind of allow people to drop into their bodies and to I feel like it was it's always good to be reminded that we're not here to perform which sometimes you know in the London social scene it can feel like people are bringing like their

00:57:34

networking kind of personalities into situations or feel feel the need to mask, which you know, masking is important and it is needed. Um, but I wanted to create a space where people um knew that it was okay not to feel that need to mask and where they felt that they could come exactly as they are um and there's nothing to fix, nothing to change, and that they could get whatever they wanted out of um the couple of hours that they would be spending eating with other people. Um but and this is

00:58:08

something that's still developing. Um I think it's in my next one I might try something different. I might try a slightly longer grounding session. Um so yeah, I'm excited to see how that kind of shapes up. >> Yeah, I know how much I loved hearing about this when we did talk about it in our learning partner session months ago. And so when I was kind of thinking about the things I want to talk to you about today, this was one of the things I definitely wanted to bring up. Um or

00:58:39

have you bring up essentially um because you're right like cooking for so many of us comes from this space of love and care because we've picked it up sitting next to our mothers in the kitchen. At least I have and I imagine so many others have. And then to be able to cook the food that you grew up eating, cuisine that comes from your land has so much value. Um, and it is one of those practices that already is of love and grounding, cooking and eating which is meant to be done in community. And then

00:59:18

to add this element, uh I don't even know if you knew it while you were doing it, but this is essentially the base of mindfulness as a practice. Um I did happen to do a a small course in mindfulness. Um it's called MBSR more specifically which is mindfulness based stress research where neuroscientists came up with MBSR as a practice uh to work with people with mental health um challenges or chronic pains to be able to manage those things better and not run away from them. And one of the first exercises we did on day one of

01:00:02

that course, which was an 8-week course, um was that the person teaching us, she sent a a box of raisins around and each one of us picked a raisin and then we spent 15 minutes eating that one raisin, each one of us, and that was our first lesson in mindfulness. So I don't I don't know if uh you had reference that this is essentially mindfulness, but you did bring it in without even trying. >> That is that sounds like such a great experience. And I actually didn't know I didn't know that was part of a

01:00:40

mindfulness practice. So it's really cool that we've kind of come to the same thing independently. Yeah. >> Yeah. And I know uh you've also been exploring some practices for grounding yourself. You already mentioned that you've been a dancer and I think whirling is something then that you um came around that was something very particular to you thing a thing that connects you to your body. Um can you tell us a little about that? Is it it does it feel closer to your lineage

01:01:13

or what where did it come from? How did you come into it? What does it feel like in your body? >> Yeah. So, the whirling was actually something that I had heard about this kind of dervishing um but had never kind of ventured into or even considered it. Um and it wasn't until I went to a festival last summer called Roomief Fest, which is kind of in the spirit of of of seism. And um there was a a whorer there and I actually missed her um her performance. But um we were chatting afterwards and I

01:01:54

discovered that um you know what she does and I spoke about kind of my um dance background and the more I learned about whing in that conversation, the more I realized this is exactly what I felt like the dance sessions that I'd been attending before weren't were kind of missing. Um, and so she she invited me to kind of train with her teacher. Um, and and I remember going to that first session and it was basically the the difference with whirling is that you can actually master the technique quite quickly. It's

01:02:38

it only took one session for me to kind of like once you have the basic technique down, the rest of it is just surrender and trust and um giving yourself permission to release and to let go. And I think that's what has kind of made whirling stick for me is because once I'm in that state and I'm spinning um there's just something that happens that where and I think there's an element of it as well. So you're you're while whirling um there's with your gaze you kind of have like a soft gaze where

01:03:17

you're you're not like fully focusing on anything cuz that can really take you out of it. And so everything's kind of a blur as you're whirling. And there's a tremendous amount of trust that goes into that. and but it doesn't feel like and I I early on I felt like I needed to kind of develop that trust but now I'm able to see it as a form of almost as a form of channeling something cuz also doing it as a group kind of intensifies um the energy and it's a really difficult thing to describe but um it's

01:04:00

like my my thoughts just switch off and the and actually the there's a lot of symbolism with whirling as well. So usually traditionally you kind of have your left hand down and your right hand up in kind of the more um traditional mellvy sufi order way of doing it. Um which isn't the way that I practice. Um, but I think there's there's so much beauty in that because the the left hand symbolizes your connection to earth and to the material world and that reminder that kind of spirituality is is an

01:04:35

embodied experience. Whereas the right hand kind of pointing up to the sky is kind of our our openness to inspiration and to being a to being able to kind of channel these qualities of, you know, divine love or or mercy or or whatever it is that that wants to come through at any given time. Um, yeah. I feel like I could talk about wing for a long time. So, I'm gonna I'm gonna stop here. That's actually thank you for taking me through that journey for taking everyone on that journey because it um the way you

01:05:21

described it I think also held a lot of value in the words you used and the way you described your experience of opening yourself up to surrender. Yeah. I almost feel like it it was a thing I wanted to be doing right now almost. Um because like like I said, I've had been struggling with I have been and still am on many levels struggling with the idea of performance and how much of my existence already exists in it. And this uh as as much as I wanted to be doing it right now, it also was bringing up these

01:05:57

feelings of anxiety. Literally just thinking of it was bringing up anxiety for me right now. um around yeah especially when you said that thing about the soft gaze how you're not trying to focus anywhere but you have a soft gaze which means that my I was thinking about where would my mind be at that time um what is it doing you have answers to this >> oh um well first of all it's actually really common for people to feel like oh this is so nerve-wracking like how am I that's how I felt when I first went into

01:06:35

into my first session. Um, and but to answer your question about the mind part, it quietens I think. Um, it's not that it's not there fully actually. It's still it's still there, but I've definitely noticed that I guess it okay. So, there's kind of a bit of a journey that happens with the mind. If I look back on the times where I've wled, it's like initially and it of course it depends daytoday as well. But generally speaking, initially you're kind of like thinking about whatever

01:07:11

you've brought with you from your day or like the technique or how your feet feel in that particular moment. Um but the longer you keep whirling and the more you drop into it, there is definitely a shift. Sometimes it's gradual, sometimes it's instant where the thoughts just become more sparse. And even when they do come, you're so like fully in the experience that it doesn't really stick or it doesn't it doesn't bother you that it's there. It's kind of you're just able to meet that

01:07:49

thought better or kind of observe it or or let it go. It's almost like you just are, you know, there's no pressure to be anything other than what you are in that moment. Um, but uh yeah, I think I think it is really hard. I've got a session later today. I think I'm going to go into that session with this question on my mind. What happens? >> Where does your mind go? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Is it is it something more like if there is a thought passing also you will let it pass and you just acknowledge

01:08:25

that you know thoughts exist because that is our mind's purpose and its job so it's doing its job and you just let the thought flow through you I guess on some level yeah it wouldn't be as conscious as that um but I think there's definitely like a direct experience of that where it's like your reaction to the thought is almost like okay yeah it's there >> and then before you know it you're like thinking about something else. Um >> yeah cuz thoughts go by so quickly in

01:09:00

the mind also that's real. It's like >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Did you know that actually >> Go on. I was going to say it would be, you know, if you're up for it, I would love for us to if you want to explore it to do a bit of whirling in one of our learning partner sessions, if it's something you're curious about. But >> yeah, don't need to answer. >> Curious that I'm anxious. Yeah, I'm going to sit with that anxiousness for a little bit for sure.

01:09:30

And then um yeah, I feel like there were some workshops that happened here also. Uh I remember my mindfulness teacher going for them actually like um six or seven months ago before I started this course. So yeah. Yeah. But I am curious. So yes, maybe thank you for that offer. U maybe I will come around to it at some point. H S I want to uh go somewhere a little more personal now if that feels okay for you. Not that any of this has been not personal but just u maybe more activated moments. Yeah. All right.

01:10:22

>> Yeah. Um, so this episode is really about rest and specifically how hard rest is for people like you, people like me, so many of us uh people who were raised one in one way or another to actually earn their place. Can you take me to a specific moment? Not the general exhaustion, but that one particular moment maybe where something in you said, "This is enough. I I can't keep going on like this." I think there have been moments for sure where I've gotten really close to that

01:11:12

point of not being able. Well, actually, I should have stopped, but I didn't. and I ignored the signals in my body. Um, and because I had been in that mode of surviving for so long and I I couldn't remember what it felt like to be in a state that was the opposite of that. I I honestly feel like I would have just kept going. Um, but what changed things for me was the first time I experienced the opposite basically of my usual state of being in survival mode. And that was at the festival that I mentioned um before

01:11:58

where I discovered the whirling. Um I that was basically 3 days of feeling so connected to people and so connected to nature and so um able to be exactly who I am like and it felt I mean there were difficult things that came up there for sure as well but it felt like there was space for that. And so when I came back from that festival and was expected to kind of log into work the next day, I think there was something about the contrast of like the experience that I just had had there and being back in my

01:12:43

usual environment and it kind of put my body back into the state that I was in before the festival. And for it to happen so quickly, I realized just how heavy it was and how awful it was and how unsustainable it was. And actually that my body had been asking me to rest for probably years. Um, and so I just wasn't I wasn't able to um go back to work and I took some time off work for a little bit and that ended up just being I think maybe there was a lot of grief in the first I think probably

01:13:26

still grieving now but the the grief was really loud like the first month or so I would say and um but through staying with that g grief and having the space to do that I think it actually ended ended up being a really restorative time for me and and deeply transformational as well. Looking back, it sounds transformational also and I can empathize with that um you know stark contrast of moving from that one physical space into another. Um I'm curious how how was the bodily experience of all of this?

01:14:15

The thing that I remember the most is the heaviness. Like it felt like it just took so much effort to move. Um and I could really just feel the weight of my limbs. Um I think as well there was a a feeling of almost sinking in my like a sinking feeling in my gut. this this anticipation of like, you know, when you're anticipating that something bad's about to happen or like or actually the opposite where like something's going really well and then you realize all of a sudden that something it wasn't

01:14:50

actually going as well as you thought or something like that and and there's that sinking feeling in your stomach. Um it was that um but it wasn't a single moment. It kind of just felt like a constant companion. um for a while. Yeah. Yeah. Holding that u sinking feeling which I think comes often with a lot of tenderness for you >> and you said you took you ended up taking a break from work post this. Um, did rest eventually feel guilt-free, not like a failure at some point through

01:15:41

this process of the break? And what what what did that feel like? Yeah, I think there were definitely moments where rest felt so just invigorating and I think it's really hard to feel guilty if you're having a good time, you know? So um and interestingly a lot of the time cuz rest looks so different for different people and even within the same person on any given day it's it's different and um I find a lot of rest in movement and so the times where I was dancing as a form of rest

01:16:25

um I I it's just really hard for me to feel guilt actually. Um, I think it's something I it's definitely something I struggled with before, you know, especially around like the resourcing of it and like am I really going to spend money to like move my body to some music with a bunch of people? Um, but and in my So, what did that feel like in my body to not Was that the second part of your question? Sorry. How did it feel to not feel guilty? Yeah. Um, it feels like joy. Yeah. And there's a kind of warmth to

01:17:06

it. And just this sense of like being fully present in the moment as well and letting go of any expectations and and to bring that back to my body. I think there's definitely a stronger sense of feeling grounded where I am. So like actually being fully present in my body um and feeling if I'm standing like feeling more connected to my feet. Um but like and also I think a a sense of flow as well. It's it's really it's really interesting to think about this cuz like the moment that the moments I'm

01:17:57

thinking of have all been while dancing. So, it's like how does my body feel while I'm dancing and I'm enjoying myself and yeah, there's also excitement, I think. And of course, my heart rate is higher than it usually would be. Um, and I'm usually maybe sweating a little bit as well, but yeah, the warmth is definitely present. That was so sweet to hear that that moment where you said, "I'm realizing I'm thinking of moments where I'm usually dancing." It's so cute. Yeah,

01:18:31

I'm so happy to hear that. I definitely am somebody who uh struggles to do that also in front of people. I used to struggle. Okay, this is one I can throw as I used to proudly throw it as that. Uh but it changed for me very late in life. Uh at least later in my mind like I think 24 was the first time I remember um freely dancing for the first time. Um and that was yeah I'm wasn't even 10 years ago from what age I'm at today. So yeah that's beautiful. Um I actually want to read you something that has uh

01:19:08

that is very deeply resonant of the things we've just spoken about and it's become something of a personal manifesto for me. It's by Nicola Jane Hobbs and it goes, "Growing up, I never knew a relaxed woman. Successful women, yes, productive women, plenty. Anxious and afraid and apologetic women, heaps of them. But relaxed women at ease women. Women who don't dissect their days into halfhour slots of productivity. Women who prioritize rest and pleasure and play. Women who aren't afraid to take up space

01:19:51

in the world. Women who give themselves unconditional permission to relax without guilt, without apology, without feeling like they need to earn it. I'm not sure I've ever met a woman like that, but I would like to become one. What What comes up for you when you hear that? Wow. Yeah. Um like the whole time I was listening, I was thinking, "Yes, yes, yes." And I was also thinking, I want to be that woman. And that's exactly how that little passage ends. You know, I want to become that. Um, I think it's

01:20:40

it's just so true, isn't it? There really aren't a great deal of women who have the who have felt like they can relax or live a softer life, one that doesn't need to be earned as the passage said. Um, and but I'm also noticing now that there's so much more I'm seeing more of it. Like I am noticing that I've seen that like a lot of the conversations that I have with my women friends send to rest a lot more than they used to. Um, I'm also kind of noticing all the ways that

01:21:26

I even with my mom for instance, I used to me and my siblings would kind of talk about how worried we are that she's just always on her feet, always doing something around the house and all of that stuff. Um, and I had a conversation with her. We we had a conversation with her about that and she was she said to us, "I love doing these things and for me it feels restful." And like that conversation with her completely shifted my perspective on what rest can look like as well. And also like was it reminded me of just

01:22:04

like how the culture that I grew up in kind of conditioned me to view rest as such a limited thing and to kind of see acts of service and acts of care as work. Um, and I feel like care is so um, devalued that it's almost impossible for people to think that it can be a restful thing for somebody to do because it's coming from a place of love and like wanting to nurture. And um, and so yeah, that's that's that's what it's brought up for me. >> So actually just to extend Please go on.

01:22:51

Just to finish that thought. Um >> yeah, >> it's also like >> it makes me think about like how can I instead of viewing rest as like this distant thing that I have to reach for or try and make space for? How can I integrate rest into my life? And that's something that my that conversation with I guess that conversation with my mom like when I reflect on it and just in general like how the time that I've spent resting has taught me is that like you don't actually have to be doing

01:23:25

anything particularly restful or joyful for you to find rest in it. Um it's all it takes is just viewing what you're doing differently or like bringing mindfulness into it. So if you're washing the dishes, you can do that in a way that is restful. Um, and I think that's quite like a it's it's just such a powerful thing to be able to do cuz it's it's available to everyone, right? To all the women who are burnt out and stressed and all of that. Yeah, I I value that reflection so much

01:24:05

because it was definitely not where my mind uh goes to when I read a lot of this. Um and I I want to sit with that more um and find more empathy towards that thought as you have been able to. I struggle a bit though because uh the same conversations when I've had with my mother and I think some of what she's got back to me with was not always um that this is restful for me and that acts of care can be restful. It's also that there is no one else to do this so it has to be done. And I suppose the also the

01:24:54

physical toll a lot of this takes because acts of care as acts of care are beautiful but if they can't also happen towards yourself and recognizing that our mothers these women from our lineages are in their older years now where your body is at a different stage of its health. um it has been through menopause. It's lost a lot of its, you know, nutrient content that is supposed to keep your muscles strong. Um so much of that goes through my mind and it leaves me in a really like difficult

01:25:32

place to um find empathy for this expression almost. So I I really value your contribution right now because I would like to get there to find some empathy for this experience when moms turn around and say, you know, that this is love for me because I also question how a lot of these concepts came around, you know, >> um in their time. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. No, and that's such an important point and such a an important thing to bring in. Thank you. Um, yeah, and that was just my one

01:26:14

conversation that I had with my mom and that's just my mom's experience, but it 100% is not the case for >> if we're talking at a more broader like societal level. um women are exhausted and there are so many women carrying labor that isn't recognized um because of the expectations that's been put on them um whether that's our mothers or or anybody else any other um woman in a role of a daughter or even outside of our familial roles. Um, I know for instance that a lot of like in

01:26:48

the workplace women are kind of um disproportionately expected to carry more while not being recognized for that work. And so I think um yeah, a really important point there for sure. >> Yeah. Yeah. I'm glad there was like different perspectives here so that we got to empathize with each others and find some space for both of those eventually. I imagine >> um as as a first generation woman who like you and me both I imagine as the daughter of the story you come from. What does this rest as defiance actually

01:27:31

mean in your life? Um yeah, I yeah, I feel like I'm actually moving away from seeing restless defiance now. Um there was definitely a time where that served me 100%. Um, but even the idea of defiance and and resistance, I feel I feel like it's really difficult to change a system if you're resisting it because you're still kind of operating within the same paradigm of that system. Um, and when you apply that to rest, I think it almost makes stop being rest makes rest stop being rest. It kind of takes the rest

01:28:20

out of rest and turns it into another thing to do. And so the approach that I take now with rest is instead to invite more of what I want into my life. Um to and to to view rest as like how can I care for myself today? How can I love myself today? Um, and I know that it is defiant. I think it's just kind of framing it in that way that can take the restfulness out of it for me. Um, and what that looks like is, yeah, it really varies dayto-day. Um, but it it does, I guess, always start with like actually listening for what my

01:29:14

body needs. Um, and checking in. Um, I've mentioned before that dance is a really big part of me feeling of rest for me. Um, sometimes it's sleeping in, other times it's, you know, listening to music. Um, one of the things that I really love and find super restorative is taking a long rose and lavender bath. like I find so much um healing and medicine in in those herbs in particular um and some of my kind of faith-based practices. So praying and the kind of deep sematic experience that that offers

01:29:57

me you know like putting my head on the ground um that's deeply restful and I think connecting with people too is super restful. So, um, yeah, with my friends in particular, I find a lot of rest in that. >> That really filled my heart. I love that part you opened with uh about how rest is not defiance for you. Thank you for redefining that. Um, I think you're doing Hannah's work right now, at least for me and everyone else listening. just allowing space for redefining a lot of

01:30:38

what we have seen as the base of what we're even trying to move towards. And you're right, I mean, if if if we keep seeing this idea as something we're fighting against, then it's quite hard to build a new world. and you've set a really nice um example with all of these practices what your new world looks like with rest is just a omnipresent part of it instead of something you're going out of your way to add. Yeah, that's beautiful. I love that so much for you. I feel like this

01:31:12

break you took from work as inevitable as it was has really really transformed a lot. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Massively. Massively. I'm like a completely different person and it feels like a lifetime ago actually. >> Yeah. I love that even though it wasn't cuz we've only started the course like 6 months ago and I remember talking to you about this in maybe January. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. And what's in like in that time I've actually gone back to work to the same job. Um, and it was really

01:31:49

interesting my first day back because I kind of was like looking over some of the old messages in my team's inbox and >> it really did feel like I was looking at messages that were sent by it kind of just reminded me of the kind of headsp space I was in before I took this break from work and I felt like there was such a big um transformation and such a big difference which I'm so I'm so grateful for and the course has definitely been a big part of that for sure and the time that we've spent together as a cohort.

01:32:24

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. I couldn't agree more. Um, so before you found this work, how would you describe your relationship with your own body? How in it were you? What were was it something you listened to, something you managed? Um, I was dissociated a lot of the time and so I felt like my I a lot of the time I walked around not even realizing I had a a body to be honest. like it it was I feel like I and if ever there was a sensation that did come up, usually it would have to get to like

01:33:13

like a crisis point for me to finally be able to feel something. Um, and when that happened, it was difficult at the time, but looking back, I feel like I needed it's like you were saying with the work thing, like it was something that needed to happen in order for me to return to my body. Um, so yeah, I think disconnection was the primary way that my primary relationship with my body before I kind of entered this work. >> And h where are you today? How has it changed? How do you feel? Not even

01:33:49

today, right now. How do you feel? Mhm. >> Right now I feel settled and like I can really feel my feet against the ground. I can really feel my seat against the chair. Um I can feel my back against the back rest. Um, I think internally it feels like there's a lot of movement h happening internally just because of maybe it's just how much I'm how much your question your great questions are kind of getting me to think about things but um yeah there's a lot of kind of an up and down movement

01:34:36

happening in my torso right now. Um, yeah. And it's amazing actually to >> go on. Go on. It's amazing actually. >> Oh, sorry. It's amazing to um I'm really glad you asked me this question cuz I feel like it's such a difference to I think if you'd have asked me that question a couple of years ago um maybe even like nine months ago I would have really struggled to answer it without like having to do some grounding first. So yeah, it just feels really nice to be

01:35:23

able to answer that in the way that I I did just now. So thank you. >> Yeah, that's what I was going to say that that sounds like a very deep connection and a very present one where you were able to um so promptly come back with how it's actually feeling. And I think that's all we're trying to get to, right? like just being connected, how it's showing up, how that how the body is actually showing up is not of as much relevance as it is that we are just able to observe how it is.

01:35:58

>> Yeah, that's beautiful. I'm so happy that uh you're not where you were 9 months ago and this is where you are and that the questions and this just conversation is helping um some parts of you land. I really love that. Yeah. Yeah. >> Thank you. >> Um, one other part of the course that has stayed with me definitely that crosses my mind often um is our power and privilege circle because it puts so much into perspective for me in terms of um the the things sometimes I sit with

01:36:38

guilt over things. Sometimes I sit with happiness over gratefulness over just a lot of that. um recognizing some of those things and um yeah I've been thinking of my own experience of it and that kind of brought me to thinking how um how have mainstream wellness spaces if whichever ones you have entered even if not mainstream just wellness spaces that you have been a part of how have they felt for you as a Muslim woman have you ever had to leave parts of yourself at the door. Yeah. So, I I think with

01:37:27

more conventional like what people think of when you think of wellness spaces um as I said before that's something that I had never really explored or um ventured into. And I think a part of that is because I knew that they wouldn't really be able to offer me what I felt I needed. Um, and but in the spaces that I have been, um, again, spaces that I feel aren't seen as wellness spaces. Um, they've been places of a lot of it has been personal actually. it's kind of just been my own personal um practice.

01:38:11

Uh and so there's a sense of deep nourishment that I get from that. But when I think of things that I've done in community, a lot of it comes from um my faith. I think there's so many practices in in Islam especially. You know, if you think for example of praying five times a day um and the word for prayer is actually salah, which means connection. And the idea behind it is that you take you pour you take some time out of your day, whatever's happening, no matter how chaotic it is, and you reconnect with

01:38:45

the divine um and other practices around um you know, fasting during Ramadan and the huge kind of community focus that has and um and again it's it's kind of I'm just thinking about that in comparison to wellness. the spaces and you know what they would call maybe intermittent fasting is is something that we've kind of been practicing and um I feel like it's you know people in general I feel like faith tends to be overlooked in in these conventional wellness spaces and um and the ways that people's faith

01:39:28

contribute to their sense of wellness whether it's with Islam or even with um the kind of Hindu roots of conscious connected breathing and we see it a lot with yoga, right? Um, and so yeah, I think I would I will say also in other I guess therapy would kind of count as a wellness space, wouldn't it? Um, and so my experience with that has been a a bit of a rocky one because um, most of my therapists have been, of course, they've been non non-Muslim and uh, it's been I've found myself just

01:40:08

having to translate how my faith plays into whatever it is that we're discussing. And that is just so exhausting. It's really like having to translate all the time is really tiring. So, um but yeah, I was really lucky eventually to have found um a and this was actually at the festival that I spoke about earlier, found a kind of Sufi leaning um Muslim IFS, internal family systems counselor. Um and what's really great about that is that he actually brings in these kind of Sufi ideas around the self

01:40:48

um which is called the nuffs um and the different states you can enter and aligning that or drawing parallels with what's taught in IFS. So for instance the the self energy would be would correlate to um the the settled self in in in in Islam um which is called I think um and it was really beautiful that he made that connection cuz what it did for me is that it allowed it just allowed it to our sessions to land in a much deeper place cuz it kind of speaking a language that I was already familiar with.

01:41:31

Um, and so that's the therapy side of things. But but yeah, it's really interesting actually looking back now how I really have avoided wellness spaces. But and I remember actually when I was signing up for this course with inspired breath work, I was really nervous about it because of that. Um, and I'd sent Hannah like a really long email just being like, "It's my first time being in like a group kind of setting where you're focused on the breath." Um, and but yeah, this course is is

01:42:07

delivered in such a way that, you know, it's undoing and unlearning a lot of like what the wellness industry um or a lot of the ways that the wellness industry I guess fail us. Yeah. Yeah. And you've successfully avoided all of it. Like you said, not all, but like you've you've recognized when it's not been the correct room for you, which is definitely to be commended. >> Yeah. Yeah. Uh and it was definitely a journey like it's I think the journey has been um recognizing

01:42:53

the strength in that because for a long time I think when one of the earlier questions you asked um I was talking about how I felt like in order to step into healing work I had to have like done that kind of work and everything. Um and so this course has actually really helped me reframe that actually I have been in wellness spaces they just don't look like the typical um wellness spaces when we think of them. Um and so that's been a really nice way to kind of recognize where power already kind of

01:43:27

exists um in in the communities that I'm a part of. Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, you said um wellness spaces and in my mind I was like, yeah, the non-traditional one also is a kitchen. A kitchen is a huge wellness place for me, uh for you as well as we've discussed before. Um yeah so I suppose a lot of these don't look like mainstream wellness because there has become a certain model for it owed to you know uh ultimately the same ideas systems of capitalism colonialism and white body supremacy a lot of that

01:44:16

has played into mainstream wellness wellness spaces looking the way they do right now. Yeah. So, it's beautiful that you've stuck to the ones that felt indigenous and more um to your beat instead of jumping into things just because. And thankfully, Hannah's course and inspire breath work is definitely one of the top places I've found who is walking the talk. Yeah, I always get confused with that phrase cuz I'm like, is it talking the walk or is it walking the talk? because both of them feel

01:44:51

equally important to me. Like how are words not as important as walking around the woods? Yeah. But yeah, they've really followed through. Um, and I feel that in every interaction I have, even about this podcast that I'm doing and when I speak to the team about all the work we're doing on it, uh, there's so much space for expansion, for just, you know, trying new things out and trying to dismantle what already exists as a structure and letting your creativity kind of take charge and

01:45:28

letting it flow in that way, which has been beautiful For me also it's been a very transformatory work experience as well. Um beyond the course of course where I have played the student more than I have played a human being. I no but that's not great because I've been playing the role of the student because it's coming from performance instead of just existing. But I'm trying to do more of the existing. Um yeah. Yeah. But so it's it's been wonderful to have encouragement for that because the

01:46:06

whole organization is kind of structured and functioning that way. So it it's definitely encouraged me to um lean into it more. >> Yeah. What do you think it would have meant for a younger Zara to see herself, someone who looked like her, felt like her, leading a breath work session? My initial response to this is like I would have been so jealous, you know, like I want that. Um, which is what jealousy is, right? I feel like jealousy is so um villainized, but it really is just an emotion that points to

01:46:47

our desires, right? And just being able to make peace with that. Um but you know once I moved through that um I feel like it just would have meant so much because for somebody who looks like me to get to a point of kind of facilitating breath work. I think I'm so like painfully aware of all the barriers you'd have to kind of pass through to get there and all of the um unlearning you would have to do. And so I'd be also intensely curious um about what that path looked like for her. Um

01:47:31

and to receive a session from somebody who's walked that path, who's kind of um ahead of me in their breath work journey who but who is kind of grounded in the same kind of cultural realities as me. I mean, it feels so far out that it's almost hard to imagine what that what that could have possibly meant, you know, like it's I know I would have felt incredibly seen. I would have felt incredibly held and I think understood knowing that, oh my god, there's no translation that needs

01:48:12

to happen here, you know. Um, and that's just one example of like one of the barriers to um, yeah, sessions outside of that kind of thing. So, yeah, it would it would have meant a lot a lot. >> Do you feel complete? Feel like there's a word stuck there? >> Yeah, maybe there is something. Let me sit with it for a second. >> Yeah, for sure. No, I don't think there is anything. Yeah. Okay, that's perfect. Yeah, I think curiosity is one of our best best mates. Um, and that you have

01:49:02

so much for it is beautiful. Um, and I hear you on the translation. The exhaustion of the constant translation can be so much. So, when it's like imagining yourself in that position, it feels so freeing. I love that. So, we're nearing the end here a little bit. Um, and so I thought maybe some reflections for us could be um, kind of sweet to go through. Um, what what what do you think is and whatever is alive for you right now? I'm happy to hear because I feel like these are things that change constantly and

01:49:50

change every day almost with how we feel about our own existence and our journey. So just to open with that thought, what is the one belief about yourself that this work has most challenged when you look back today? I think my sense of like limiting my power cuz what this course is doing is that it's showing me that I know much more than I think I know and it's giving me the language for it. Um, so it's actually been a really difficult thing to um to move through and I find it really

01:50:44

confronting as well when I think about my tendency to play small and to hide. Um, and it's something that I'm moving through for sure. Um but on the other and on the other side of that I really do feel like there is a sense of expansiveness and rootedness that is available to me um by fully meeting the discomfort of like all the ways that I've made myself smaller and I've shrunk myself and I've not expressed myself. Um, and I think one of the big blocks around like shifting out of that or letting go of

01:51:28

that is the grief around like how much of my life has been spent in that way and how much I didn't how unaware I was of my own voice and my own power. Um, yeah. But I think it's something that I'll stay with and and see where it leads. Yeah, those are powerful realizations. Okay, lovely. And if you had to reflect on the time that has gone by from when you discovered some of this about yourself to where you are today, what habit of mind or body or soul has been the hardest for you to put down?

01:52:33

Yeah, I think it's what kind of what I mentioned before around the hiding and the shrinking. Um cuz I know that there are times in class, for example, where I feel like I could definitely contribute and say something and I I have an idea of what it is that I want to share, but I I hold myself back from sharing. Um, and it's something that also I think plays out in outside of the breath work sessions as well, outside of our course. Um, funnily enough, I think the only place where it disappears is um when I'm dancing.

01:53:15

So yeah, I think for me the task now is to be with that a bit longer and and feel into it in my body and um see what wisdom my body contains around that um and work with that. And I think I think also having a lot of compassion for it too and and recognizing that it serves a protective purpose. Um, and that it's my system trying to keep me feel safe. Um, and also like it's such a a common thing for um women of color, isn't it, to to shrink themselves and to not feel safe being seen in their light and um

01:54:14

so there's there's a lot of kind of compassion that um I can find for myself in that I think just knowing that it's part of a systemic um problem and um and a response to kind of the experiences that I've had. Yeah, that's a great reflection and sitting with compassion for yourself sounds exactly the direction to take towards most of our existence and towards the world around us. Thanks for that beautiful last thought. Zara, as you as we all move towards facilitating, who is the person you most want to be in

01:55:01

the room with? Who are you thinking about? What kind of person? What kind of entity are you thinking about when you imagine the work that you want to do? Can you explain this question? Expand on this question a little bit for me just so I I've understood it fully. >> Yes, of course. Um, are there communities in your mind that you might know you want to serve? Uh, do they belong to a specific cultural set? Do they belong to a specific gender? Um, do they belong to people say with navigating burnout?

01:55:41

um those whose stories mirror your own and >> um I suppose what do you want for those people to know breath work could offer them? >> Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I think I I want to work with where I'm at with that right now is that I want to work with um women of color in particular. um who particularly ones who have kind of been burnt out or have are have been experiencing the um exhaustion or the lack of rest that we've talked about earlier on. Um and also generally women who have had a

01:56:32

sense or have a really strong sense that their life is as it's playing out feels smaller than it could be, you know, and they want to um kind of cultivate and nurture that sense of expansiveness, whatever that means for them. I would love to kind of create a space for people that will act both as a place of rest but also as a place of discovery and a space for people to feel like they can shine, you know. Um, and yeah, I think I think that's probably what what calls to me the most is um creating a container

01:57:20

um for women to kind of explore new ways of being in the world and to return to their bodies and through that return to be able to imagine kind of new things for themselves. um not from a place of grasping or anything like that, but from a place of what is it that my body needs and craves and that I what haven't I allowed my body to to do despite it kind of calling out to me? Um yeah. Yeah, that's that's beautiful. Um, and for anyone listening and who might resonate with a lot of what you said,

01:58:06

uh, where can we find you? I'm on Instagram as Zara's Table. Um, and yeah, I would, you know, if anyone kind of resonated with what I said today, I would absolutely like love, if you're based in London as well or, um, you don't mind the journey, um, I'd love to see you at one of my next supper clubs or, um, uh, my next dwelling performance, um, which is happening in July. Um, but yeah, for more details around that, that will be on my Instagram. And we'll also be sure to leave all of

01:58:43

that information uh in the summary of this episode. Um thank you for bringing us to that sweet close. Zara, thank you uh so much. Genuinely, I came into this conversation today already knowing you quite a bit and I'm so grateful that I got a chance to know you even more now. And there's something about uh speaking in public together I think that does that and we were discussing the strangeness in that for the first time. Um thank you that what you offer today is not a tidy story of transformation.

01:59:28

It's definitely something more honest. Um, it's the image of a woman with your journey in the middle of it, still carrying things, moving through them with compassion, and still learning to put them down. Um, choosing day by day to take up more space and shine brighter. I don't think that's a small thing at all. And I am genuinely so honored to be walking alongside with you. >> Thank you so much. and I feel the exact same way. Um, I really there's just really enjoyed this conversation and

02:00:08

there's so much that I'll be taking away from it as well. Um, and I look forward to continuing our journey together and seeing where it takes us after every conversation in this space. I like to sit with a poem. Not to wrap things up neatly, not to summarize what we just said either, just to let an other profound voice carry us a little further. And today I want to offer you something by Lucille Clifton. Clifton was a black American poet laurate who wrote with extraordinary economy and power. She could crack

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something open in six lines that other writers couldn't reach in six pages at times. She spent her life writing about the body, about womanhood, about about survival, about what it means to inhabit yourself fully and without apology. This poem by her is called, "Won't you celebrate with me?" It's an invitation and I invite you to just receive it. Won't you celebrate with me what I have shaped into a kind of life? I had no model born in Babylon, both non-white and woman.

02:01:38

What did I see to be except myself? I made it up here on this bridge between starshine and clay. My one hand holding tight my other hand. Come celebrate with me that every day something has tried to kill me and has failed. Each time I read this poem, I get caught on that last line. Something has tried to kill me and has failed. She isn't talking about one thing. She's talking about all of it. The systems, the eras, the grinding demand to make yourself smaller, quieter, more convenient. And what she offers in

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return is not anger. It's a celebration, an invitation to stand on that bridge between starshine and clay, between where you came from and where you're going, holding your own hand and calling that a life. That's what Zara has been sitting with today. rest not as absence, not as surrender, but as the quiet daily radical act of saying, "I refuse to be consumed." Something has tried to extinguish the stillness in us. And every time we choose the breath instead of the brace, every time we stop, it fails.

02:03:34

What stays with me from this conversation is something Zara said about not knowing who she was without the doing. I think a lot of us live there in that constant motion because stillness asks us a question we haven't yet learned to answer. This work, the breath work, the course, the slow unlearning is teaching us to sit with that question without flinching. And Zara is doing that with a grace and an honesty that I found genuinely moving. She is in the middle of her first year. She is not finished. None of us are. None of us

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will ever be. And that is exactly the point. So next month we go to a place that so many of us find the hardest of all. We're going to talk about what happens after the session, after the ceremony, after the breakthrough when you have to come back to your actual life and figure out what to do with everything that shifted. the integration, the unglamorous, creative, essential work of making it real, of making it embodied, the practice. I cannot wait to bring that conversation to you. If today's episode is still moving

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through you, if something landed somewhere unexpected, here are a few small things I want to invite you into before you leave. Subscribe to the Inspire Breath work podcast wherever you listen. Each episode this season is part of something larger, a full arc, a full journey, and I want you to have every piece of it. If this conversation spoke to something you perhaps recognize, pass it on. Think of the one person in your life who is running on empty and has no idea that they have permission to stop. You don't

02:05:35

need to explain it. Just send it. They will know it's for them. And if Zara's story called to something in you, if you want to explore this work with her directly, her details are in the show notes. Please reach out. She is building something rooted and real, and it might be exactly what you've been looking for. Thank you for being here. Thank you for trusting this space, for trusting me. Until next month, move at the pace of your own body. Take up every inch of space that is yours. And remember, the

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pause is not empty. It is where you remember who you are. Take good care.